"Thunder" (Thunder)
09/17/2013 at 09:13 • Filed to: None
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"Thunder" (Thunder)
09/17/2013 at 09:13 • Filed to: None | 0
| 26 |
Yesterday, I sold my house. OK - maybe not REALLY a house, but to me it felt big enough (and drove like one).
The QX56 is no more.
So now I find myself somewhat in the market - not in a critical need for a vehicle, but not going to drive the hand-me-down Pacifica forever, either. I did not aspire to be a MiniBus (our moniker for it) driver.
That led me through a number of different thought processes, first to attempt a near direct replacement for the '07 Civic Si sedan I previously owned, to be compared against its competitors, Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3. BRZ was considered as well. But, I may go a little more upscale, and probably used.
All of which brings me to my question of the day: is there a Japanese manufacturer of sports cars? Mazda's the best chance, as I'll describe below.
I have basically centered on E46 or E90 M3, or 996 Porsche 911. My primary requirement is four seats (OK, the 911 is a tough sell in that respect), and manual transmission. By that definition, there aren't currently too many choices.
BTW, comments are my own, and I'm almost certainly talking out the wrong end on some of these, so feel free to correct my assessments... as I'm sure this community will anyway.
European:
BMW - I think most of their lineup is fairly sporty.
Porsche - obviously
Mercedes - Luxury over sport, except AMG is crazy... but no stick shift
Audi - The S series could be sporty, but IMHO, the 2.0L turbo they put in everything just doesn't have it.
VW - See Audi, but without the S series
American:
Ford - Has the sport aspect, in the Focus ST and Mustang
Chevy - Camaro, maybe, but I'm looking for smaller than that
Dodge - Challenger... but again, too big
Chrysler - Nope. Trying to be luxury, but I don't think the 300 gets there.
Buick - Maybe the Regal GS might be sporty, but I'm not sure based on the reviews I've seen.
Lincoln - Chortle. Are they still around?
Korean:
Hyundai - Trying oh so hard to move into luxury, and into sports at the same time, both with the Genesis IIRC. I'm not sure they hit it with either. Maybe the Genesis Coupe might be an answer for me, but not a great one from what I've seen.
Kia - It's Hyundai, but tarted down a little
Japanese:
Honda - Civic Si has lost the 'frantic' feel that I loved in mine. I'll pass.
Acura - ILX would have a chance, but why do they insist in making the sporty, manual option mutually exclusive with the technology stuff?
Mazda - This is the best chance for a Japanese sports car manufacturer. I like the Mazdaspeed3, personally. That may still happen.
Toyota - FR-S (like BRZ) is small. Other than that... nothing really sporty.
Lexus - The IS250 I believe is dead; that was their only manual offering, and wasn't remotely quick.
Nissan - CVT's! CVT's for EVERYONE!!!!
Infiniti - The old G37's had a 6MT option; the new Q serieses are automatic only.
Subaru - WRX and STI, as well as BRZ. WRX and STI didn't impress me that much, unfortunately.
So, I'm finding it impossible to identify a Japanese sports car with four seats and manual transmission that would work for me.
Used RX-8 might work. Or does anyone make a stretch 4-seat NSX? (That was a joke - don't hunt me down, please.) But if I go with used, it'll probably be something "special", hence M3 or 911.
Sorry for the train of thought rambling.
Z_Stig
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:18 |
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If you need four seats, The E90 M3, or maybe even a 335i would be your best options. The rear seats in a 911 are useful for everyone under 10 years old.
Tom McParland
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:19 |
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What is your budget? That is the most determining factor right now, because it seems your considerations range from a pre-owned hot hatch of under 20k to a full blown luxury car pushing 45k or higher.
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Thunder
> Z_Stig
09/17/2013 at 09:22 |
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Forgot to mention 335i is a possibility too. But I suspect used M3's retain value a bit better than the 335i, just because they're perceived as more special.
My kids are 14 and 8, so child-size seats are generally OK. 99% of the time, the occupants will be me and one other; the remainder, it will probably just be me and the kids, so my son can sit up front. Although my 8 year old daughter is just 51 pounds - she has to have a growth spurt here sometime or I'll be sending her off to college with a child booster seat in the driver's position.
getchapopcorn
> Z_Stig
09/17/2013 at 09:23 |
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I had an E90 m3 for a year; if he really needs 4 seats, this won't do it. He could very well do with an E39 or E60, thought.
ColoradoTaco
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:24 |
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Audi doesn't put the 2.0 in S cars. The S4 has a 3.0L supercharged V6. great motor. And the TTS has a 5cyl turbo, although I have no experience with that one. Previous gen S4s had a 4.2 V8
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Thunder
> Tom McParland
09/17/2013 at 09:25 |
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Budget is pretty flexible. I just stopped spending four figures a month on the QX (which was my wife's, BTW), but I'm pretty frugal.
I'd say that if I go used, it'll be so it can be something cool, in the maybe 30-40K range. If I go below 30K, it would be for something new in that range, that might be fun, but not outlandishly expensive.
I had planned to keep my Si forever; nothing I'm seeing that's new right now gives me that same feeling. :-(
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ColoradoTaco
> ColoradoTaco
09/17/2013 at 09:27 |
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Also, did you consider a used GTR?
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Thunder
> ColoradoTaco
09/17/2013 at 09:30 |
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Correct - I was saying that the S series could do it, but the regular A's don't.
hollanddjw 1
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:33 |
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For a practical DD that DOESN'T break all the time, I'd go with, as you said, an E46/E9x M3, MS3, or one of the new FF Fords (or possibly a stock SVT Cobra, if there is such a thing).
I'd be kinda worried about the 996 because of the teething pains with the M96. Speaking of unreliability, have you considered an FC/FD RX7? That seems to be along the lines of things you're looking at.
The man in the iron mask
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:40 |
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just stay awary from a fwd car, and you'll be fine
rwd ftw
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Thunder
> hollanddjw 1
09/17/2013 at 09:44 |
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We seem to be on the same page.
I haven't considered an RX7 - doesn't meet the back seat requirement. Hence RX8... but that carries with it worries about the longevity (and expense of potentially replacing) the Renesis mill.
BarryDanger
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:46 |
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It's a shame they don't make the IS-F in manual... I think your best Japanese option is the G37S great all around performance with plenty of room in the back. The interior of the MS3 is well optioned but its nothing compared to your old QX.
Or you could completely switch it up and get some old J-tin like a Datsun 510 2 door, RWD corolla or mk1 celica
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BarryDanger
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:48 |
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Ehem - I'm here to submit my vote for some old J-Tin
2 Door 510 Sedan, RWD Corolla, mk1 Celica
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Tom McParland
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:53 |
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Ok, that helps. I had a client in a similar situation he has leased 3 6-speed G coupes and now wants something different. He considered the 3-series but the sticker was kind of high and he doesn't like driving what everyone else has. He ended up ordering a Caddy ATS 6-speed base trim, with no options. At the end of the day he was looking in the low 30's after incentives and rebates. It doesn't have the mag-ride or the Brembos (that car was 45k) but he really enjoyed the car when he drove it. So if you can track down an ATS manual in your area, I think it would at least be worth a test drive. If the Caddy is not your thing, finding a good CPO 3 series should be well within your range.
Since you are all over the board, as most Jalops are because we know too much. You may benefit from my survey that I use for my clients. As you probably know, people pay me to help them buy cars. You are welcome to complete my survey at no charge and I can make some more specific recommendations.
You can find the survey here . If you do complete it please drop me a line here on Oppo or send me an email- automatchconsulting@gmail.com So I can keep an eye out for the data. :)
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Z_Stig
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:53 |
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Since it will usually be you and just one of kids, I say go for the Porsche; nothing on your list will be as special, or maybe even as fun to drive.
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hollanddjw 1
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 09:59 |
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I'm fairly certain that Mazda made the RX7 in a 2+2 configuration, but like the 911, it would be kinda hard to justify. On that topic, why not a 300ZX 2+2?
Also, Lancer Evo?
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Grechosaurus
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 10:20 |
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I love my Genesis Coupe. I know it may not seem like the strongest competitor against something like the Stang or an E46 M3, but its unique, great fun, well balanced, RWD, the Turbo has a HUGE upgrade potential, while the V6 is a good outta the box fun. Get a track or R-Spec model with the Brembos and LSD and you got a really good, cool looking package with even more potential. If you're looking new, well then the 2013's only got better (in the performance department, looks is debatable). 348hp from the V6 is pretty nice. The manual's got better, and the auto's got even better with a ZF 8-speed
I'd say go test drive one, don't rule it out right away.
Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> hollanddjw 1
09/17/2013 at 10:20 |
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There are stock Cobras but they command almost as much as a new 5.0.
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hollanddjw 1
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/17/2013 at 10:27 |
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Eek. I'd go new V6 money, but $30k for a mustang made in 2004? I'll pass. Even if it has IRS and a blower.
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Thunder
> Grechosaurus
09/17/2013 at 11:12 |
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OK - I'll check one out.
Thanks.
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Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> hollanddjw 1
09/17/2013 at 11:39 |
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"Almost" as much. $28k is a more realistic guess. Although ironically, one with professionally made mods will cost much less.
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hollanddjw 1
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/17/2013 at 11:46 |
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Then again, "gently used" is never a term I would associate with a Termi.
feather-throttle-not-hair
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 13:38 |
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Lancer evo is conspicuously absent. Too cheap feeling? What about a used cts-v or e39 m5?
My friend has an 06 gto, it has very nice back seats, handles respectably for a car of that size and goes fast in a straight line. It's an m/t though to be honest the shift feel is not great, especially if you're used to a civic. It's still appreciably smaller than a camaro.
Edit: Pontiac G8 GXP maybe?
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Thunder
> feather-throttle-not-hair
09/17/2013 at 14:27 |
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Does Mitsu still exist?
Honestly, though, I don't see many around here, and I don't even know there's a dealership around. I just didn't even think of them.
CTS-V might work...
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feather-throttle-not-hair
> Thunder
09/17/2013 at 15:00 |
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Mitsubishi sort of still exists. I'd personally rather own an evo 8 or 9 than 10 anyway. They're supposed to be one of the all time great drivers cars.
The nice thing about the cts-v is that you've got a couple of generations to work with. 1st gen is fast and mature, second gen is just bonkers.
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Thunder
> feather-throttle-not-hair
09/17/2013 at 16:43 |
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Bonkers is exactly the term with which I think of the 2nd gen. I've test-driven one, and it just has too much power to use on the street, IMHO.
But at least it has a manual transmission, but we can't ask Doug DeMuro about that. :-o